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AzizAnsari

indigojonesnyc
indigojonesnyc Designer, Blogger, Baker + Mischief Maker
almost 2 years New York, New York Conversation

Aziz Ansari was accused of sexual assault by a date who later felt uncomfortable by their encounter. She consensually went to his apartment and participated in sexual activities with him, although she said she gave non-verbal cues to show her uneasiness with the situation.  When she later told him via text that she felt uncomfortable during their encounter, he stated: 

“I’m so sad to hear this,” Ansari replied at the time. “All I can say is, it would never be my intention to make you or anyone feel the way you described. Clearly, I misread things in the moment and I’m truly sorry.”

The woman came forward months later after he won a Golden Globe for the best actor in a television series while wearing a TIMES UP pin, in solidarity with women in the entertainment industry. 

 QUESTIONS: Is this assault, or a date gone awry? Where are the boundaries? Has the #METOO movement gotten out of hand, or do we have the right to publically accuse every date that tried to push us to go farther than we wanted to? Many website commenters are siding with Aziz. Love to hear the group's opinion. 

37 replies

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  • Lauren Sayre 63
    almost 2 years ago

    Sexual Assault: Being violently shoved into a corner while he tries to take your clothes off and stick his tongue down your throat while you try to fight him off.


    The Ansari Story: She willingly went to a mans house where he made it very clear that he wanted to have sex. She continued to stay with him despite not wanting to engage in anything sexual and by her own accord only exhibited signs of discomfort rather than very loudly and vocally telling him no (until later when she told him she didn't want to have sex). All the while having the freedom to leave at any time. Not once in her story does she mention being forced to do anything. 

    I'm not trying to blame her. I've been in situations where I too have been afraid to say no, to be adamant and loud. I've been pressured into situations I did not want to be in. I learned from it though, and now I know how to get out of them, how to have a voice. What he did was reprehensible, but it is not assault.

    Sexual Assault: Being violently shoved into a corner while he tries to take your clothes off and stick his tongue down your throat while you try to fight him off.


    The Ansari Story: She willingly went to a mans house where he made it very clear that he wanted to have sex. She continued to stay with him despite not wanting to engage in anything sexual and by her own accord only exhibited signs of discomfort rather than very loudly and vocally telling him no (until later when she told him she didn't want to have sex). All the while having the freedom to leave at any time. Not once in her story does she mention being forced to do anything. 

    I'm not trying to blame her. I've been in situations where I too have been afraid to say no, to be adamant and loud. I've been pressured into situations I did not want to be in. I learned from it though, and now I know how to get out of them, how to have a voice. What he did was reprehensible, but it is not assault.

  • Rmochi
    almost 2 years ago

    This was not 'assault'. I'm sorry, but this woman agreed to go out with someone she had known for mere hours, and agreed to go to his apartment at the first meeting. Maybe I'm cynical, but a man (a woman too I guess) inviting you into their place after a date almost always signals sexual activity. And with the way he didn't even allow them to finish their meal, it was clear what his intentions were. Also, this woman was wearing JEANS. He obviously took the time to undress her multiple times, and she had ample time to stop him, push his hands away, push HIM away, hell, even slap him, if she didn't want him touching her. Aziz is a very small man and overpowering him seems quite easy. Yet she allowed at least 3 instances of oral sex and even sat on the floor, AKA next to his penis while he was on the couch hoping that he would touch her some more (stroking her hair/backrub). Would you allow your assaulter to give you a backrub?? This woman was extremely naïve but was definitely not a victim of any assault and could have left at any opportunity, but chose not to, probably because she still wanted to say she had a nice date with a celebrity. A repulsion to real victims like myself.

    This was not 'assault'. I'm sorry, but this woman agreed to go out with someone she had known for mere hours, and agreed to go to his apartment at the first meeting. Maybe I'm cynical, but a man (a woman too I guess) inviting you into their place after a date almost always signals sexual activity. And with the way he didn't even allow them to finish their meal, it was clear what his intentions were. Also, this woman was wearing JEANS. He obviously took the time to undress her multiple times, and she had ample time to stop him, push his hands away, push HIM away, hell, even slap him, if she didn't want him touching her. Aziz is a very small man and overpowering him seems quite easy. Yet she allowed at least 3 instances of oral sex and even sat on the floor, AKA next to his penis while he was on the couch hoping that he would touch her some more (stroking her hair/backrub). Would you allow your assaulter to give you a backrub?? This woman was extremely naïve but was definitely not a victim of any assault and could have left at any opportunity, but chose not to, probably because she still wanted to say she had a nice date with a celebrity. A repulsion to real victims like myself.

  • cvansaders
    almost 2 years ago

    Lack of consent or post date regret?? She should have chosen to leave when she felt uncomfortable rather than move forward and complain later.  She could have excused herself from the date earlier saying she had to be up early or something. His apology was sincere once she expressed herself. Women need to own their part in giving unclear signals.

    Lack of consent or post date regret?? She should have chosen to leave when she felt uncomfortable rather than move forward and complain later.  She could have excused herself from the date earlier saying she had to be up early or something. His apology was sincere once she expressed herself. Women need to own their part in giving unclear signals.

  • cvansaders
    almost 2 years ago

    Lack of consent or post date regret?? She should have chosen to leave when she felt uncomfortable rather than move forward and complain later.  She could have excused herself from the date earlier saying she had to be up early or something. His apology was sincere once she expressed herself. Women need to own their part in giving unclear signals.

    Lack of consent or post date regret?? She should have chosen to leave when she felt uncomfortable rather than move forward and complain later.  She could have excused herself from the date earlier saying she had to be up early or something. His apology was sincere once she expressed herself. Women need to own their part in giving unclear signals.

  • cvansaders
    almost 2 years ago

    Lack of consent or post date regret?? She should have chosen to leave when she felt uncomfortable rather than move forward and complain later.  She could have excused herself from the date earlier saying she had to be up early or something. His apology was sincere once she expressed herself. Women need to own their part in giving unclear signals.

    Lack of consent or post date regret?? She should have chosen to leave when she felt uncomfortable rather than move forward and complain later.  She could have excused herself from the date earlier saying she had to be up early or something. His apology was sincere once she expressed herself. Women need to own their part in giving unclear signals.

  • cvansaders
    almost 2 years ago

    Lack of consent or post date regret?? She should have chosen to leave when she felt uncomfortable rather than move forward and complain later.  She could have excused herself from the date earlier saying she had to be up early or something. His apology was sincere once she expressed herself. Women need to own their part in giving unclear signals.

    Lack of consent or post date regret?? She should have chosen to leave when she felt uncomfortable rather than move forward and complain later.  She could have excused herself from the date earlier saying she had to be up early or something. His apology was sincere once she expressed herself. Women need to own their part in giving unclear signals.

  • cvansaders
    almost 2 years ago

    Lack of consent or post date regret?? She should have chosen to leave when she felt uncomfortable rather than move forward and complain later.  She could have excused herself from the date earlier saying she had to be up early or something. His apology was sincere once she expressed herself. Women need to own their part in giving unclear signals.

    Lack of consent or post date regret?? She should have chosen to leave when she felt uncomfortable rather than move forward and complain later.  She could have excused herself from the date earlier saying she had to be up early or something. His apology was sincere once she expressed herself. Women need to own their part in giving unclear signals.

  • cvansaders
    almost 2 years ago

    Lack of consent or post date regret?? She should have chosen to leave when she felt uncomfortable rather than move forward and complain later.  She could have excused herself from the date earlier saying she had to be up early or something. His apology was sincere once she expressed herself. Women need to own their part in giving unclear signals.

    Lack of consent or post date regret?? She should have chosen to leave when she felt uncomfortable rather than move forward and complain later.  She could have excused herself from the date earlier saying she had to be up early or something. His apology was sincere once she expressed herself. Women need to own their part in giving unclear signals.

  • cvansaders
    almost 2 years ago

    Lack of consent or post date regret?? She should have chosen to leave when she felt uncomfortable rather than move forward and complain later.  She could have excused herself from the date earlier saying she had to be up early or something. His apology was sincere once she expressed herself. Women need to own their part in giving unclear signals.

    Lack of consent or post date regret?? She should have chosen to leave when she felt uncomfortable rather than move forward and complain later.  She could have excused herself from the date earlier saying she had to be up early or something. His apology was sincere once she expressed herself. Women need to own their part in giving unclear signals.

  • hmcs1946
    [deleted]
    almost 2 years ago USA

    [deleted]

    [deleted]

  • hmcs1946
    hmcs1946 Writer, Blogger, Author
    almost 2 years ago USA

    Non-verbal cues can be misunderstood by an individual. You have to verbally make it clear what your comfort zone is.

    Non-verbal cues can be misunderstood by an individual. You have to verbally make it clear what your comfort zone is.

  • hmcs1946
    [deleted]
    almost 2 years ago USA

    [deleted]

    [deleted]

  • kelley@iCheckmates.com
    almost 2 years ago Huntington Beach, CA, United States

    I too am trying to get a law passed in all states for Romance scams, Love Fraud, Catfishers and con artists that use deceit for their personal gain. Like Joyce stated it is a hard Bill to get traction because of the laws being so archaic when it comes to the internet. In this case it was a mutual meet up in person. If his message to her was something like " let's go to my place so we can discuss ideas and business" and that was just his BAIT to get her into bed than there is merit there that he deceived her. It appears she went willingly but that does not mean I want to sleep with and gives you the right to do whatever you want. The fact that she reciprocated sexual acts could be looked at as she knew what she was doing. But the argument to that is if she felt threatened and thought the only way to stay safe was to acquiesce than that could be a case as well. 


    It is truly unfortunate that there are those in power, famous and men that feel entitled that they can behave in such a manner and think it's ok. NO big deal. It appears that this woman was clearly NOT INTO HIM but played the game which I think many women do when put in that uncomfortable situation. I believe that there needs to be more education and awareness about Joyce Shorts proposed Bill and start demanding that our local and Federal Government do something to hold these abusers accountable. It is NOT OK ANYMORE PERIOD!! The more we speak out and out the abusers will take this dark dirty secret into the open and make all of us take a good look at our behavior and demand change so these predators can not get away with their deceitful actions any longer. 

    I too am trying to get a law passed in all states for Romance scams, Love Fraud, Catfishers and con artists that use deceit for their personal gain. Like Joyce stated it is a hard Bill to get traction because of the laws being so archaic when it comes to the internet. In this case it was a mutual meet up in person. If his message to her was something like " let's go to my place so we can discuss ideas and business" and that was just his BAIT to get her into bed than there is merit there that he deceived her. It appears she went willingly but that does not mean I want to sleep with and gives you the right to do whatever you want. The fact that she reciprocated sexual acts could be looked at as she knew what she was doing. But the argument to that is if she felt threatened and thought the only way to stay safe was to acquiesce than that could be a case as well. 


    It is truly unfortunate that there are those in power, famous and men that feel entitled that they can behave in such a manner and think it's ok. NO big deal. It appears that this woman was clearly NOT INTO HIM but played the game which I think many women do when put in that uncomfortable situation. I believe that there needs to be more education and awareness about Joyce Shorts proposed Bill and start demanding that our local and Federal Government do something to hold these abusers accountable. It is NOT OK ANYMORE PERIOD!! The more we speak out and out the abusers will take this dark dirty secret into the open and make all of us take a good look at our behavior and demand change so these predators can not get away with their deceitful actions any longer. 

    • Michelle Daines 5
      Michelle Daines 5 American Made
      almost 2 years ago Montreal, QC, Canada and Delray Beach Florida, USA

      go for it Kelley

      go for it Kelley

  • Maya Borgueta
    almost 2 years ago

    This description of the event above seems to ignore or minimize a lot of what was actually reported in the original article on Babe, in a way that seems to be really pulling for us to conclude it was "a date gone awry". The accuser actually made multiple attempts, both verbally and non-verbally, to communicate her discomfort and desire to stop during the incident. Is the bar so low that we can't all agree that men should stop when a woman is clearly uncomfortable? The incident was pretty disturbing to read about - clearly not just regret afterwards - shock and distress throughout.

    This description of the event above seems to ignore or minimize a lot of what was actually reported in the original article on Babe, in a way that seems to be really pulling for us to conclude it was "a date gone awry". The accuser actually made multiple attempts, both verbally and non-verbally, to communicate her discomfort and desire to stop during the incident. Is the bar so low that we can't all agree that men should stop when a woman is clearly uncomfortable? The incident was pretty disturbing to read about - clearly not just regret afterwards - shock and distress throughout.

    • Lauren Sayre 63
      almost 2 years ago

      We should all agree that men should stop when a woman is uncomfortable. However, we can't go around assuming that because we are all talking about how wrong it is that we should willingly go to any man's apartment and assume that they will abide as a gentlemen. What I have trouble wrapping my head around is the fact that Ansari was VERY clear about what he wanted, and while she states she exhibited discomfort, I would venture to say that she was not as clear about her feelings. From the Babe.net article: "She said she remembers him asking again and again, “Where do you want me to fuck you?” while she was still seated on the countertop. She says she found the question tough to answer because she says she didn’t want to fuck him at all."


      I understand where she was at, I really do. I remember being in situations where I was young and naive and afraid of saying no for various stupid reasons. I wanted to be nice, I didn't want to offend, etc. But we can't always play the victim. Unfortunately it is a lesson that I had to learn. There will always be men like Ansari. That doesn't make it right by any means, but in order avoid these situations we have to acknowledge that fact and teach ourselves how to get out of the situation. Call him out, by all means, but this isn't sexual assault.

      We should all agree that men should stop when a woman is uncomfortable. However, we can't go around assuming that because we are all talking about how wrong it is that we should willingly go to any man's apartment and assume that they will abide as a gentlemen. What I have trouble wrapping my head around is the fact that Ansari was VERY clear about what he wanted, and while she states she exhibited discomfort, I would venture to say that she was not as clear about her feelings. From the Babe.net article: "She said she remembers him asking again and again, “Where do you want me to fuck you?” while she was still seated on the countertop. She says she found the question tough to answer because she says she didn’t want to fuck him at all."


      I understand where she was at, I really do. I remember being in situations where I was young and naive and afraid of saying no for various stupid reasons. I wanted to be nice, I didn't want to offend, etc. But we can't always play the victim. Unfortunately it is a lesson that I had to learn. There will always be men like Ansari. That doesn't make it right by any means, but in order avoid these situations we have to acknowledge that fact and teach ourselves how to get out of the situation. Call him out, by all means, but this isn't sexual assault.

  • jkpoole
    almost 2 years ago

    As the only man responding so far, and a lawyer, I would point out that letting a woman (or man, if in passive mode) change her mind as to "desired" attention or consent after the fact is inconsistent with any sort of criminal law system.  These things go in cycles.  Decades ago, when I was in law school, certain public sexual disputes prompted some of my classmates to write up legal forms for "CONSENT FOR ONE NIGHT STAND," spelling out all details and options.  These are fun only for perverted lawyers!

    As the only man responding so far, and a lawyer, I would point out that letting a woman (or man, if in passive mode) change her mind as to "desired" attention or consent after the fact is inconsistent with any sort of criminal law system.  These things go in cycles.  Decades ago, when I was in law school, certain public sexual disputes prompted some of my classmates to write up legal forms for "CONSENT FOR ONE NIGHT STAND," spelling out all details and options.  These are fun only for perverted lawyers!

    • Michelle Daines 5
      Michelle Daines 5 American Made
      almost 2 years ago Montreal, QC, Canada and Delray Beach Florida, USA

      Seriously? I wouldn't want to be a man right now.

      Seriously? I wouldn't want to be a man right now.

    • Rachel Borowicz
      Rachel Borowicz Software Engineer & Arts Philanthropist
      almost 2 years ago San Francisco, CA, United States

      Thank you for this insight!

      Thank you for this insight!

  • Elizabeth Stone
    Elizabeth Stone Founder and CEO of AttractTheOne.com
    almost 2 years ago

    But aren't you quoting his minimization without including the whole story?

    The actual account from Grace, described in the original article about that date sounds exactly like sexual assault to me. He continually minimized her no and physically moved away from him lots of times:

    https://babe.net/2018/01/13/aziz-ansari-28355

    We often unfairly expect that victims will have the perfect thing to say in the moment or that they'll clearly express themselves. That isn't real life. She told him she wasn't ready for sex and he kept at it. 

    If she felt violated, she felt violated. It's not the responsibility of the victim to prove perfect victimhood. Sure, maybe he did misread things in the moment, but claiming one is misreading things while continuing the same behavior in the moment seems disingenuous to me.

    But aren't you quoting his minimization without including the whole story?

    The actual account from Grace, described in the original article about that date sounds exactly like sexual assault to me. He continually minimized her no and physically moved away from him lots of times:

    https://babe.net/2018/01/13/aziz-ansari-28355

    We often unfairly expect that victims will have the perfect thing to say in the moment or that they'll clearly express themselves. That isn't real life. She told him she wasn't ready for sex and he kept at it. 

    If she felt violated, she felt violated. It's not the responsibility of the victim to prove perfect victimhood. Sure, maybe he did misread things in the moment, but claiming one is misreading things while continuing the same behavior in the moment seems disingenuous to me.

    • Rmochi
      almost 2 years ago

      "Not ready for sex" does not mean not ready for other sexual activity, which is what happened. You need to be clear.

      "Not ready for sex" does not mean not ready for other sexual activity, which is what happened. You need to be clear.

    • Libby Myers 89
      almost 2 years ago

      From my understanding of her account, he backed off when she said 'No'?

      From my understanding of her account, he backed off when she said 'No'?

  • Joyce Short
    Joyce Short Mogul Influencer, TEDx Talk Presenter, Author & Advocate for Sexual Assault Survivors
    almost 2 years ago New York NY US

    The definition of "consent" is at the heart of the matter. There is not enough information to tell whether or not his date "consented." Even saying "yes" does not qualify as "consent" if the inducement results from any form of manipulation. Consent does not merely mean "agreeing." It means FREELY GIVEN, KNOWLEDGEABLE and INFORMED AGREEMENT" #FGKIA. If Ansari coerced, deceived, or overwhelmed her by violence, or if she was under the influence of drugs or alcohol, unconscious, younger than the age of consent or too mentally challenged to consent........ even sex the victim "agrees to" is a form of sexual misconduct because not all forms of agreement qualify as consent.  The offender knows whether or not they are manipulating the victim or whether the victim is providing consent to them, even when the victim does not know it at the time. 

    The definition of "consent" is at the heart of the matter. There is not enough information to tell whether or not his date "consented." Even saying "yes" does not qualify as "consent" if the inducement results from any form of manipulation. Consent does not merely mean "agreeing." It means FREELY GIVEN, KNOWLEDGEABLE and INFORMED AGREEMENT" #FGKIA. If Ansari coerced, deceived, or overwhelmed her by violence, or if she was under the influence of drugs or alcohol, unconscious, younger than the age of consent or too mentally challenged to consent........ even sex the victim "agrees to" is a form of sexual misconduct because not all forms of agreement qualify as consent.  The offender knows whether or not they are manipulating the victim or whether the victim is providing consent to them, even when the victim does not know it at the time. 

    • V
      almost 2 years ago New York, NY, United States

      I love this point @Joyce Short - I think the manipulation consent is what many women have a difficult time wrapping their heads around, as we are conditioned that unless we verbally say "no" we must want it. I know countless women that have had very similar sexual encounters such as this (self included) and brush it off as "bad sex." But really, it is manipulation from the man and society - and that "bad sex" becomes the standard, instead of a low bar. 


      It is absolutely sexual misconduct, as the man's unwanted sexual advances are purely based on his own fantasies and desires - treating the woman as a mere object - which is displayed clearly in the Ansari article. With zero thought or consideration for her comfort or well-being he only cares about himself and his own pleasure. I don't ANY woman would verbally consent to sex where the man gets to have all his fantasies met and the woman is miserable and humiliated. Also - side note - I would like to add in the notion of power in this situation: Ansari a famous comedian, actor, writer and Grace, a photographer from Brooklyn. There is a power displacement in this situation, which could explain on many levels Grace's reaction to the incident, although the story still read all-too familiar to me, and I don't have sex with celebrities. 

      To circle back, I think it's hard for woman to wrap their heads around manipulated consent because it is SO COMMON and as uncomfortable or awful we feel after the incident, it would feel out of place to label it as misconduct, or assault, within the social constructs we've defined today. 

      I love this point @Joyce Short - I think the manipulation consent is what many women have a difficult time wrapping their heads around, as we are conditioned that unless we verbally say "no" we must want it. I know countless women that have had very similar sexual encounters such as this (self included) and brush it off as "bad sex." But really, it is manipulation from the man and society - and that "bad sex" becomes the standard, instead of a low bar. 


      It is absolutely sexual misconduct, as the man's unwanted sexual advances are purely based on his own fantasies and desires - treating the woman as a mere object - which is displayed clearly in the Ansari article. With zero thought or consideration for her comfort or well-being he only cares about himself and his own pleasure. I don't ANY woman would verbally consent to sex where the man gets to have all his fantasies met and the woman is miserable and humiliated. Also - side note - I would like to add in the notion of power in this situation: Ansari a famous comedian, actor, writer and Grace, a photographer from Brooklyn. There is a power displacement in this situation, which could explain on many levels Grace's reaction to the incident, although the story still read all-too familiar to me, and I don't have sex with celebrities. 

      To circle back, I think it's hard for woman to wrap their heads around manipulated consent because it is SO COMMON and as uncomfortable or awful we feel after the incident, it would feel out of place to label it as misconduct, or assault, within the social constructs we've defined today. 

    • YirlaRubi
      almost 2 years ago

      I was on the fence about this incident. There seemed to be so many gray areas with her story but your explanation totally makes sense! I can see where there is a form of manipulation in this incident.

      I was on the fence about this incident. There seemed to be so many gray areas with her story but your explanation totally makes sense! I can see where there is a form of manipulation in this incident.

    • Michelle Daines 5
      Michelle Daines 5 American Made
      almost 2 years ago Montreal, QC, Canada and Delray Beach Florida, USA

      well said

      well said

    • Kathy May
      Kathy May Associate at Deutsche Bank
      almost 2 years ago New York, NY, USA

      Wow, this is an excellent point @Joyce Short

      Wow, this is an excellent point @Joyce Short

      • Joyce Short
        Joyce Short Mogul Influencer, TEDx Talk Presenter, Author & Advocate for Sexual Assault Survivors
        almost 2 years ago New York NY US

        I'm attempting to get this definition of consent enacted in every state in the US. Unfortunately, penal code differs from state to state. Some recognize this definition and others do not. Most states define consent by what it's not. They'll tell you when consent is "ineffective" without telling you what it actually is. Anyone who has influence with their legislators can help enact this definition into law by contacting them and demanding they do so. Together, we can fight rape mentality! 

        I'm attempting to get this definition of consent enacted in every state in the US. Unfortunately, penal code differs from state to state. Some recognize this definition and others do not. Most states define consent by what it's not. They'll tell you when consent is "ineffective" without telling you what it actually is. Anyone who has influence with their legislators can help enact this definition into law by contacting them and demanding they do so. Together, we can fight rape mentality! 

    • Elizabeth Stone
      Elizabeth Stone Founder and CEO of AttractTheOne.com
      almost 2 years ago

      YES!

      YES!

  • Michelle Daines 5
    Michelle Daines 5 American Made
    almost 2 years ago Montreal, QC, Canada and Delray Beach Florida, USA

    There is a risk of the sport to going to a man's apartment. It does not give a man permission to rape but the risk is elevated since there is the implication that a woman goes to a man's apartment knowing there will be an element of privacy in that it is not a public place. It happened to me. I was able to fend off the rape. I did not give non verbal cues. I made it clear that I was not interested in nor was I consenting to being raped so I was able to scare the man into realizing that his claim that he was going into diabetic shock and needed to be home so his sister could administer his insulin was his plan to lure me into his home. I studied with him so I saw him every day. I thought he was my friend. I should have just said no, I will call 911 for you but I was YOUNG AND NAIVE.  So. Rule number one. A silent no is not enough. Non verbal cues are not enough. A loud NO is enough. Then you get up and leave. Otherwise you are victimizing yourself by putting yourself into a situation in which you can be raped. Who cares if you are right or dead right. You are the only one who pays for this mess even if you thought you might want to be there and enjoy some affection. Don't be NAIVE. Even at 57 I was in another situation in which I was date raped. I can tell you a hundred times not to go to a man's apartment or bring him to yours.....it doesn't work.....because somewhere inside our fantasyland head we ignore danger signals. Someone who listens to your non verbal cues is listening to you because they care. Then they stop. Then you have a choice to leave or stay. At each junction, thoughtful assessment of the risk is needed but we are relaxed, we are happy, we are not alert or we just want to go with the flow until we have no power in a situation. Sometimes you die. Just a little inside or you are killed. STAY OUT OF A MAN'S APARTMENT! DON'T LET MEN INTO YOUR APARTMENT! There I said it. Would it have made a difference if someone warned me? Not much. We don't see criminal intent because we are not criminals. So this guy is guilty of going past the consent to non consent, the minute there is a cue, he must ask, are you okay? Should we stop? Sorry this happens all the time and women wind up regretting that they had sex with someone they did not want to have sex with.    

    There is a risk of the sport to going to a man's apartment. It does not give a man permission to rape but the risk is elevated since there is the implication that a woman goes to a man's apartment knowing there will be an element of privacy in that it is not a public place. It happened to me. I was able to fend off the rape. I did not give non verbal cues. I made it clear that I was not interested in nor was I consenting to being raped so I was able to scare the man into realizing that his claim that he was going into diabetic shock and needed to be home so his sister could administer his insulin was his plan to lure me into his home. I studied with him so I saw him every day. I thought he was my friend. I should have just said no, I will call 911 for you but I was YOUNG AND NAIVE.  So. Rule number one. A silent no is not enough. Non verbal cues are not enough. A loud NO is enough. Then you get up and leave. Otherwise you are victimizing yourself by putting yourself into a situation in which you can be raped. Who cares if you are right or dead right. You are the only one who pays for this mess even if you thought you might want to be there and enjoy some affection. Don't be NAIVE. Even at 57 I was in another situation in which I was date raped. I can tell you a hundred times not to go to a man's apartment or bring him to yours.....it doesn't work.....because somewhere inside our fantasyland head we ignore danger signals. Someone who listens to your non verbal cues is listening to you because they care. Then they stop. Then you have a choice to leave or stay. At each junction, thoughtful assessment of the risk is needed but we are relaxed, we are happy, we are not alert or we just want to go with the flow until we have no power in a situation. Sometimes you die. Just a little inside or you are killed. STAY OUT OF A MAN'S APARTMENT! DON'T LET MEN INTO YOUR APARTMENT! There I said it. Would it have made a difference if someone warned me? Not much. We don't see criminal intent because we are not criminals. So this guy is guilty of going past the consent to non consent, the minute there is a cue, he must ask, are you okay? Should we stop? Sorry this happens all the time and women wind up regretting that they had sex with someone they did not want to have sex with.    

    • Michelle Daines 5
      Michelle Daines 5 American Made
      almost 2 years ago Montreal, QC, Canada and Delray Beach Florida, USA

      Sometimes calling 911 immediately is what should have happened...I know I didn't....because I did not want to believe I was ruffied and raped, yes raped, even if I enjoyed it because I was drugged. I was consenting to sex because I was drugged but I never said no. Actually I wish I could have said no because I never would have had sex with that man but I was in a social position with him which gave me a level of trust that he would keep me safe. He was a worker who worked for me and to make a long story short, I paid him to take me out and watch my back while I danced, watch my drink, drive me there and back but not sex, just someone to let me let go without worrying about being harmed by a stranger. The man who I hired to work for me not only as a construction worker asked me if I wanted to go out and I said no but agreed that he could take me to a very popular bar just to drive me there, watch my back and drive me home. I wanted to dance but not with him. I wanted to be out on a date but not with him. So I settled for what I thought was a safe excursion to Palm Beach. I had actually paid him a lot of money, 400 hundred USD to do sort of be my bodyguard which he implied that he understood was the deal. He planned it all. He put date rape drugs in my drink when I wasn't watching because he was supposed to protect me. He was a predator not an escort. I would have been safer with a real professional escort. So is it rape if you don't say yes or can't say no?????? Because of prescription limitations, the failure to report works against you. Can I ever report a rape now? Yes but proving it and getting someone charged and found guilty of rape is the legal process that I should have followed then. To try someone in public opinion about events that were not reported to LE.......not too good for the stigma that still lives on in your head. I know how she feels. However what I read is that he backed off and came in with a different level of sexual act....if you say no to a kiss, you are definitely not going to appreciate being fingered...nor will you want to give a guy a bj so this brings you to the sensitive discussion of why did you perform certain acts which can be interpreted as consent? Because you had no choice. 

      Sometimes calling 911 immediately is what should have happened...I know I didn't....because I did not want to believe I was ruffied and raped, yes raped, even if I enjoyed it because I was drugged. I was consenting to sex because I was drugged but I never said no. Actually I wish I could have said no because I never would have had sex with that man but I was in a social position with him which gave me a level of trust that he would keep me safe. He was a worker who worked for me and to make a long story short, I paid him to take me out and watch my back while I danced, watch my drink, drive me there and back but not sex, just someone to let me let go without worrying about being harmed by a stranger. The man who I hired to work for me not only as a construction worker asked me if I wanted to go out and I said no but agreed that he could take me to a very popular bar just to drive me there, watch my back and drive me home. I wanted to dance but not with him. I wanted to be out on a date but not with him. So I settled for what I thought was a safe excursion to Palm Beach. I had actually paid him a lot of money, 400 hundred USD to do sort of be my bodyguard which he implied that he understood was the deal. He planned it all. He put date rape drugs in my drink when I wasn't watching because he was supposed to protect me. He was a predator not an escort. I would have been safer with a real professional escort. So is it rape if you don't say yes or can't say no?????? Because of prescription limitations, the failure to report works against you. Can I ever report a rape now? Yes but proving it and getting someone charged and found guilty of rape is the legal process that I should have followed then. To try someone in public opinion about events that were not reported to LE.......not too good for the stigma that still lives on in your head. I know how she feels. However what I read is that he backed off and came in with a different level of sexual act....if you say no to a kiss, you are definitely not going to appreciate being fingered...nor will you want to give a guy a bj so this brings you to the sensitive discussion of why did you perform certain acts which can be interpreted as consent? Because you had no choice. 

  • Kathy May
    Kathy May Associate at Deutsche Bank
    almost 2 years ago New York, NY, USA

    I think it's a date gone awry as well. Yes, he might have been pushy, but he never forced her to do anything, and he didn't have a power over her as well from a financial or career standpoint. She was there consensually, and participated seemingly consensually since she was acting on her own free will and staying there on her own free will, although with regret inside her head since she was no longer feeling into him. 

    I think it's a date gone awry as well. Yes, he might have been pushy, but he never forced her to do anything, and he didn't have a power over her as well from a financial or career standpoint. She was there consensually, and participated seemingly consensually since she was acting on her own free will and staying there on her own free will, although with regret inside her head since she was no longer feeling into him. 

    • Carol Labi 40
      almost 2 years ago

      I agree, don’t mistake regret with feeling violated. He didn’t force her to preform oral sex on him. She didn’t say I don’t want to do this and I’m going to leave now. It appears it took her a long time and several sexual acts to finally say, I’m going to call a cab. She felt confident enough to give him her number while on a date with someone but not confident enough to say early on in his apartment that she wanted to leave? I think she has regrets and he was pushy. Pushy does not mean you are violent. It means pressure. Fon’t We feel pressure in many ways in daily life? You can always say no and leave. I’m not saying what he did was nice, it wasn’t. Most men are pushy especially when they want sex on a first date. You need to be strong!

      I agree, don’t mistake regret with feeling violated. He didn’t force her to preform oral sex on him. She didn’t say I don’t want to do this and I’m going to leave now. It appears it took her a long time and several sexual acts to finally say, I’m going to call a cab. She felt confident enough to give him her number while on a date with someone but not confident enough to say early on in his apartment that she wanted to leave? I think she has regrets and he was pushy. Pushy does not mean you are violent. It means pressure. Fon’t We feel pressure in many ways in daily life? You can always say no and leave. I’m not saying what he did was nice, it wasn’t. Most men are pushy especially when they want sex on a first date. You need to be strong!

      • Joyce Short
        Joyce Short Mogul Influencer, TEDx Talk Presenter, Author & Advocate for Sexual Assault Survivors
        almost 2 years ago New York NY US

        @Bethany Heinrich   They'd been drinking. Do you know how many drinks she had or what condition she was in? Do you know whether the alcohol clouded her ability to think straight? And btw.... people "regret" when they're "violated." As well, they may regret their behavior when they're not violated, but they also regret their behavior when they're violated. So regret does not mean that they weren't violated. There's an old expression..... just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you. When you're robbed, you can regret your behavior. When you're hit by a car in a crosswalk, you can regret your behavior. When you're violently raped, you can regret your behavior. A crime happens when an offender commits wrongdoing, whether you feel regret or not. Ansari engaged in sex without any concept of her limits or boundaries. While he didn't rape her, his behavior amounts to "sexual misconduct" in NYC.... "engaging in sex" without consent. Consent is freely given, knowledgeable and informed agreement. #FGKIA. He made no attempt to be knowledgeable and informed. 

        @Bethany Heinrich   They'd been drinking. Do you know how many drinks she had or what condition she was in? Do you know whether the alcohol clouded her ability to think straight? And btw.... people "regret" when they're "violated." As well, they may regret their behavior when they're not violated, but they also regret their behavior when they're violated. So regret does not mean that they weren't violated. There's an old expression..... just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you. When you're robbed, you can regret your behavior. When you're hit by a car in a crosswalk, you can regret your behavior. When you're violently raped, you can regret your behavior. A crime happens when an offender commits wrongdoing, whether you feel regret or not. Ansari engaged in sex without any concept of her limits or boundaries. While he didn't rape her, his behavior amounts to "sexual misconduct" in NYC.... "engaging in sex" without consent. Consent is freely given, knowledgeable and informed agreement. #FGKIA. He made no attempt to be knowledgeable and informed. 

        • Lauren Sayre 63
          almost 2 years ago

          She doesn't say anything in her statement about being drunk. She only states that he offered her more wine. She vividly recalls her account on babe.net and doesn't mention intoxication as any part of the story. I agree with your statement of "sexual misconduct". It is not sexual assault. Unfortunately she was pressured into a sexual act she didn't necessarily want to commit but she was free to leave at all times. I have been in similar and worse situations and it was a learning experience for me. While the men in these stories are never in the right, we have to accept that there will always be these types of men and we need to learn how to not be the victim (I'm not blaming her). While Ansari was COMPLETELY and utterly in the wrong, I hope this young woman learns from this experience and finds a stronger will and voice if this ever happens to her again. 

          She doesn't say anything in her statement about being drunk. She only states that he offered her more wine. She vividly recalls her account on babe.net and doesn't mention intoxication as any part of the story. I agree with your statement of "sexual misconduct". It is not sexual assault. Unfortunately she was pressured into a sexual act she didn't necessarily want to commit but she was free to leave at all times. I have been in similar and worse situations and it was a learning experience for me. While the men in these stories are never in the right, we have to accept that there will always be these types of men and we need to learn how to not be the victim (I'm not blaming her). While Ansari was COMPLETELY and utterly in the wrong, I hope this young woman learns from this experience and finds a stronger will and voice if this ever happens to her again. 

  • Bethany Heinrich
    Bethany Heinrich Mogul Influencer
    almost 2 years ago New York, NY, United States
  • Sarah Fein
    almost 2 years ago

    I respect the Metoo/TimesUp movement but I do think people need to be careful not to misinterpret it and to come forward on something that could ruin someone's career if they weren't assaulted. I sympathize with this actress and don't want to strip away the gravity of the situation but it somewhat feels like a bad date to me where she should have told him no instead of assuming he'd read her nonverbal cues.

    I respect the Metoo/TimesUp movement but I do think people need to be careful not to misinterpret it and to come forward on something that could ruin someone's career if they weren't assaulted. I sympathize with this actress and don't want to strip away the gravity of the situation but it somewhat feels like a bad date to me where she should have told him no instead of assuming he'd read her nonverbal cues.

  • Sarah Fein
    almost 2 years ago

    I'm on the fence about this because I remember being in a similar situation where I finally told the date no and to stop instead of giving non-verbal cues.

    I'm on the fence about this because I remember being in a similar situation where I finally told the date no and to stop instead of giving non-verbal cues.


indigojonesnyc
Designer, Blogger, Baker + Mischief Maker

Hi! I’m Shari, a fashion designer, trend forecaster, blogger, baker, and all around mischief-maker. After years of working for some of the world’s most successful designers and brands, I’ve begun following my passion for making high quality, delicious treats that look as good as they taste. [...]

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